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écrit par eirc le 07 septembre 2002 01:32:54:
en réponse à: Re: il n existe pas de ferrari merdique BEN SI écrit par philippe le 06 septembre 2002 14:08:08:
etrange,
de quoi parle t on , de chose que l on connais peu sans doute:
pour avoir possédé quelques rouges des années passées je peux vous affirmer que je n ai jamais rencontré de personne déçu.
Ne pas confondre mécanique fragile ,comme les jaguar, qui ont en effet ce défaut et beauté du moteur et de la ligne.il est étrange de préférer et de se moquer de gens qui roulent en ferrari plutot qu en bugatti, je ne comprends pas votre raisonnement, monsieur.
question de snobisme sans doute,
Eric
>Comme il existe des séries de jaguars pourries.
>moches avec des moteurs pas géniaux, des tôles.... et une fiabilité ben heu.....
>parlez en à un spécialiste.
>Bon c'étaient les années 70... on en retiendra pas grand grand chose à part peut être le London Calling des Clash.....
>Et puis la Daytona j'ai quand même le droit de la trouver moche screugneugneu non?
>J'aime bien certaines Rolex mais alors pas celle là.
>Philippe
>
>>peut etre un peu moins réussis si vous voulez parler d une mondial ou dune 308
>>la spéculation autour des rouges dans les annees 90 est en effet risible comme celle autour des rolos ce jour...
>>enfin on ne peut pas dire que la dayto est moche, certes trop chère mais pas moche....
>>
>>>Vous ne savez pas ? 'est vachement simple pourtant !!! nous explique le businness times de singapour : il faut choisir selon son budget :
>>>entre 3 et 5 000 euros ou $ on prend une rolex sinon on se plante !
>>>vous avez plus de fric à mettre dans le bizness ? une Patek ou une Lange tout simplement !
>>>bon il y a d'autres exemples mais Panerai... comptez pas sur moi pour dire que c'est un investissement mais j'avoue que les grandes vintage mouvement Rolex-Cortebert ca vaut un max de max de thunes
>>>remarquez que dit comme ça c'est simple non ?
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>>>How to invest in time
>>>CHUANG PECK MING finds out from watch connoisseur Jonathan Tee about some collectibles worth investing in
>>>
>>>IF you're a complete novice when it comes to wristwatches and have a tidy sum to spend, you won't go wrong with a Rolex, advises watch connoisseur and dealer Jonathan Tee. But not just any Rolex.
>>>'If you have $3,000 to $5,000, the safest buy - and one that will keep its value - is definitely a Rolex,' Mr Tee says. 'And it has to be a sports model,' he added. That would be the Daytona, Explorer, Sea Dweller or Submariner.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>These are, however, not easily available in the official Rolex dealer shops - and you have to pay a premium for them at the end of a long queue. Unless you're willing to settle for second-hand ones: These are found more readily - and usually more cheaply - in shops like Mr Tee's Passions, which sells and buys vintage and high-end watches.
>>>'Rolex is one of the most popular brands in the world. It can be rolled back in to be pawned easily, or kept as an investment,' he says.
>>>Mr Tee recently paid $28,000 for an old steel Rolex chronograph, the much-sought after Paul Newman Daytona. Christie's, the international auction house, reportedly valued it for about US$20,000. The person who sold him the timepiece bought it in 1974 for only $700.
>>>And there are times when he takes such a fancy to certain pieces that he will not consider selling them. A case in point is a 1950s Rolex Oyster-cased chronograph with full calendar in steel (picture on Page 32). According to Mr Tee, this is a rare model much sought after by connoisseurs of vintage watches. A similar model, he told us, was recently auctioned by the auction house Antiquorum for 300,000 Swiss francs (S$350,183) - probably a world record for a steel Rolex.
>>>But another Rolex that was for sale - at least at the time we visited his shop - was a 1930-40s Rolex Oyster Royal in a three-piece steel case (picture on Page 35). Apparently, its 'Hollywood' or 'California' dial is much desired by collectors. It features a dial with hour markers that are half Roman and half Arabic - with matching 'Mercedes' styled hands.
>>>We were told that an original model like this one is extremely hard to come by and could be worth up to $8,000 - because many were damaged through the decades and the market is swamped with fakes.
>>>Rolex, however, is not what Mr Tee would recommend if you have a more generous budget. 'When you spend so much on a watch, you want to be different,' he says. 'So look for something unusual, something better in quality. Rolex makes good-quality watches but they're too common. Even for the Daytona, there are many fakes these days.'
>>>One possible example is the limited edition rose gold IWC Portuguese made in 1993 for the company's 125th anniversary, and auspiciously numbered 88. At the time, only 500 of these watches were produced, using an old, exclusive in-house movement. Many would consider this a rare collector's item, with a possible value of up to $20,000. It was originally part of a three-piece set, of which only two were imported into Singapore.
>>>But a really serious collector, with money to match, will always fall back on Patek Philippe, the Rolls Royce of watches, according to our watch entrepreneur friend.
>>>'It still makes the best movements, the best quality watches and its production is still low,' he says. 'The design may not appeal to you but the watches hold their value better than many others.'
>>>One example found in Mr Tee's many shelves of timepieces was a 1950s Patek Philippe 'Calatrava' reference 570 (picture on Page 34). He claims this is a highly collectible model because it is a large-sized wristwatch with a very high-grade movement. It's known to have fetched between US$8,000 and US$14,000 at past auctions. Putting down anything above $20,000 for a Patek timepiece is a good investment, Mr Tee claims. Partly it's because Patek's output is still relatively small.
>>>'You can be assured they would not flood the market,' he says. 'There's at least some exclusivity and, in the long term, it'll become a rarity and increase in value.'
>>>The latest Patek World Time model, introduced two years ago, retails at around $23,000 to $26,000 (depending on whether it's presented in yellow, rose or white gold). The platinum version costs about $10,000 more. But at an Antiquorum auction in April this year, a 1940s platinum World Time set a record for a wristwatch sold at auction when it fetched a cool US$4 million.
>>>While more a Patek fan - he dreams owning a Patek complication - Mr Tee also has high regard for
>>>A Lange & Sohne, a recently resurrected high-end German brand.
>>>'It's a very serious watchmaker, the Patek of Germany,' he says. 'It's the best watchmaker in Germany. Some say its quality surpasses Patek's. Its quality is worth paying for.'
>>>Prices of Lange timepieces range from roughly $10,000 to $130,000 or more. The most popular model, the Lange 1, is around $34,000 before discount.
>>>As to why some people prefer watches made by less familiar names like Ulysse Nardin, Graham, Parmigiani Fleurier, Roger Dubuis, Jaeger-LeCoultre, Audemars Piguet, Breguet and Girard-Perregaux, it's just a matter of taste, he says.
>>>Fashion also plays a part, as in the current craze over Panerai - once the Italian supplier of watches to the Italian navy but now owned by the Swiss. 'In terms of trend, what's moving now is Panerai because of its limited production, the brand, the style,' Mr Tee says. 'It's also very big, which is the current fashion.'
>>>Yet the brand, which boasts the most pricey steel model (a limited edition split-second chronograph at US$35,000 apiece), is not without its investment value. Mr Tee has sold a pre-World War II Panerai with a Rolex movement for US$20,000, making a handsome profit out of it.
>>>'It's such an ugly big watch - bigger than the standard Panerai - stainless steel, a simple movement, no complications,' he recalls. 'But it's so rare. I got it from a guy who bought it in Italy. I dared to buy it because I knew it was very rare and there would be a buyer. In fact, the buyer didn't even bargain.'
>>>But whatever brand you settle on, Mr Tee advises, you should only buy what you can afford - and like. If not, you'll be out of pocket, and find yourself tired of your watch very soon. 'I've seen many people who pay through their noses, even borrowing with their credit cards,' he says. 'It's not worth it.'
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